Have the Signers Been Silent?
I see many people, in defense of Gary Demar, asking why none of the signers have said anything about Gary cooperating with hyper-preterists (HP) in the past, insinuating that we have been silent for years.
"Why now?" Even Gary is asking. Of course, they're not asking signers directly whether that is true or not because if they did, my answer would ruin their opportunity to speculate and slander people on Gary's FB wall.
Here's a post I wrote (below) in August 2018 about this very thing. But first, let me give you the back story.
A conference featuring Gary DeMar, Joel McDurmon, Glenn Hill (HP), and Cindye Coates (HP, anti-trinitarian, self-ordained 'pastor') was advertised. The ad made it look like they were teaming together to promote fulfilled eschatology. But assuming Gary and Joel were orthodox preterists, that didn't make sense because it would conflict with Glenn and Cindye's hyper-preterism. So, I wondered, were they capitulating to the hyper-prets, or were they only going to teach on verses they agreed to be fulfilled? It seemed that no distinction would be made between orthodox preterism and heretical hyper-preterism.
When I threw that question out there, the host (Cindye) told me that they were putting their differences aside to share the news of fulfillment. hmmm.... So I asked Gary, and he said I didn't know what I was talking about. Same treatment I get now.
I was concerned that this conference was going to confuse a lot of people by making no distinction between orthodoxy and heresy, and that Gary and/or Joel might even cave on some things.
Then the videos were released. And that's exactly what Joel did in the Q&A session, representing American Vision.
Here was my response after viewing the videos: (original link below)
Any defenders of American Vision want to explain to me what in the world is going on in this Q&A session?
I was told by Gary Demar that i did not understand the purpose of this conference, which appeared to me to be some sort of joint-effort of orthodox preterists with heretical preterists to combat dispensationalism/zionism without getting into the MASSIVE, Gospel-denying ramifications of full preterism. And i based that on the flyer, which featured Demar and McDurmon with Cindye and Glenn Hill (both full-preterists) to make fulfilled eschatology simple AND from the host herself. Cindye was very clear that they were gathering to unite, not to address their differences.
And now this Q&A comes out.
The question was asked of two hyper prets and Joel about the timing of the second coming. Joel, who hasn't shied away from other questions, drops a PRIME OPPORTUNITY to make the distinction and hands the mic to the hyper pret. Glenn not only gives the standard, hyper pret answer, but then adds that if their understanding is false, then Jesus is a false prophet and not the Son of God!
The mic is then handed back to Joel. Again, another prime opportunity to draw the line and what does he say? He says he has NOTHING to add!
Are you kidding me? The false teacher sitting right next to you, in your presence, just put the entire universal and historical Christian church on blast and you have NOTHING TO SAY!?!
Unbelievable.
And this same gentlemen shares in this same session how frustrated he is with men who lack 'manhood' by not standing up to dispensationalism; he feels like "slapping" them. Yet, he says NOTHING to the guy sitting right next to him who just accused Christians (universally, historically) of turning Jesus into a liar!
In another place, Joel mentioned his debate with Don (full-preterist) and described their differences as "small things."
Small things! Are you kidding me?
Denying the resurrection of the body is minor? Denying the consummation of history is minor? Arguing that Jesus has zero involvement in the judgment of nations and people today is minor? Arguing that Jesus ditched the human nature at His ascension is minor and implying some sort of weird morphing on the part of the divine essence is minor?
A denial of the Gospel is happening right in front of you and all you want to fuss about is John MacArthur and progressive dispensationalists? I can't stand progressive dispensationalism, but give me Johnny Mac over Don Preston and Max King any day!! McArthur still upholds the Gospel!
This is simply unbelievable. And, from all appearances, ended up being EXACTLY what I said it was going to be, to begin with.
If not, then explain this video to me.
I'm sorry if i'm coming off as being a jerk or something, but i invested 7 years into this nonsense. This garbage has shipwrecked the faith of many. It has destroyed family after family. It is a blatant denial of the most fundamental, essential aspects of the Christian faith, on so many levels. It is literally practical atheism. And we're supposed to just sit here and act like this ain't no big deal..."but oh, those darn progressive dispies..."
What part of 1 Cor. 15 are we not understanding here?
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Interestingly, if you read the comments, Sam was still giving Gary & Joel the benefit of the doubt, and I disagreed. Here was my response to Sam. I highlight this not to embarrass Sam but to show my rationale for not giving them the benefit of the doubt:
Sam: "I stand by and defend Joel McDurmon and Gary DeMar if they want to present their ideas while all the while knowing their massive differences."
Sam, i respectfully disagree with this for a few reasons:
1. Especially after watching that Q&A, i'm not so sure that Joel believes these are "massive differences." He said he debated Don Preston over "small things." He also affirmed Cindye's "awesome" response to Glenn's full-preterist answer to the question of when the second coming occurred, in which Glenn included the "resurrection," and then said he had "nothing to add."
Why would he essentially affirm a distinct, full-preterist answer?
And i don't recall hearing anything from Joel that would make a hard distinction between him and full preterists, other than his answer to the great white throne judgment question. He hasn't embraced a fulfilled view of it yet, but he said he is moving closer to that position.
If i had known nothing about Joel and listened to this Q&A, i would have left thinking that Joel is an optimistic full-preterist, or at least on the very edge of it.
So, i don't get any impression from him that he sees a "massive difference."
2. Given that there is a massive difference, namely regarding the doctrine of salvation, i don't believe Christian men should be doing conferences with heretics unless they are there to expose the heresy.
Now, someone may think, "well, heretics would never agree to that." Ok. Fine. If so, then we shouldn't be doing these conferences.
This conference was advertised as a "celebration" in which the differences would be squashed. It lends credibility to the heretics, which we know full preterists desire more than anything, and that is exactly what Cindye believed Gary did for them:
Cindye to Gary: "THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!!! You brought so much credibility to the PRESENT TRUTH Message!! You are the best!!"
Now, i understand that full preterists like to cherry-pick from Christians and claim that theologian so-and-so "proves" their point. I played that game too. But when this is said about a conference in which the heresy of full-preterism was not discussed at all, it puts a whole different spin on it.
The whole tone from Joel in that Q&A was that we "preterists" are all in this together, combatting zionism and dispensationalism, and working together to advance the truth.
And that is simply impossible to do with full-preterism.
The only possible positive spin i could put on this is that they think they can reach full-prets or leaning full-prets by showing up at these things; but to do so at the appearance of lending credibility to heresy and aiding in advancing and exposing people to damnable heresy?
Nah. At a minimum, it is careless and irresponsible.
I have already seen one comment from a person who was riding the fence and the stuff he heard from EVERYONE at this conference pushed him over.
Another life ruined.
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So there you have it. Don't believe the hype on Gary DeMar's wall. Either some of these guys have short memories, are lying to you, or never saw any of this, in which case, they have no business suggesting that no one ever said anything.
Also, I wrote this 5 years before Dr. Talbot passed and I was installed as Interim President of Whitefield. There is a nutcase running around on Gary's wall named Roderick who claims that I am only NOW bringing attention to Gary because I have let the new role and "power" go to my head. The guy is clueless.
Here's the link to the original:
