I remember when this was happening. When I was a hyper-preterist, they sent me a copy of their book for free for me to review. I was shocked. My question back to them was, "Who made the trees?" They answered, "God, of course." I then asked, "How do you know? You have no Scripture for that?" Then the astronomer (author) guy jumped my case... but still no Scripture.
Truly sad. Thank you, Jesus, for dragging my sorry butt out of that mess! Praise Him!
I think it's really sad that the OP has descended to ad hominin attacks instead of discussing the merits of covenant creation. Simply CLAIMING that preterists say this or that, and then attacking those claims as false might appeal to weak minds, but it isn't truly a discussion - it is only an attack.
There ARE valid arguments for preterism and covenant creation, but instead of dealing with them, the old strategy of claiming the other side believes something false and then dismantling the falsehood is NOT discussion. Actually, it borders on the hateful, but disguising it as "love".
I hope that whoever read this OP checks out for themselves the claims of covenant creation. You might be surprised what it teaches isn't at all what is claimed here.
And, BTW, the claim that it leads to atheism is as true of mainstream Christian teachings as it might be of preterism. So if you want to use guilt by association, remember there are fingers pointing at you too!
You clearly do not understand what an ad hominem is. An ad hominem fallacy happens when someone attempts to address an argument by ignoring the argument and answering with insult. That is not what I did. My article was not meant to be a step-by-step refutation of Covenant Creationism. It was an exposure of the rotten trajectory of the system. Furthermore, I spent years "discussing the merits of covenant creation." I wrote a thorough critique of Tim and JL's chapter on the "Test of Truth." It's garbage. And it's been proven garbage over and over again since 2008/2009. I am not interested in “discussion.” These ideas do not deserve an endless back-and-forth. They are destructive lies that eat away at the very foundations of the faith. And my point with this post was not to dialogue with error but to warn against it.
Also, saying that hyper-preterism and Covenant Creationism lead to unbelief is not an attack on people, it is an indictment of the doctrine itself. When its most vocal advocates end up renouncing Christ, that is not “guilt by association,” it is the inevitable fruit of the tree. If you actually listen to Tami in that video, it's not hard to see how one leads to the other. I warned that this would happen to them, and it did.
That statement in itself is answering with an insult. You don't know what I understand and what I don't and don't have a right to declare that I "clearly" don't grasp what you consider to be clear.
Another statement of yours: "It's garbage"?
Again, just making an attack against the system without any more proof than your allegations.
Why should I accept YOUR interpretations (or rather, your insulting judgement calls) as true, versus what I and others HAVE studied?
You don't open any doors to acceptance of your own views (whatever they may be) by leading with insults. In fact, you come across as arrogant and as some kind of "authority" about what is right and what is good, without giving nothing more than a statement that because some others who may or may not have understood preterism are now atheists, and in your economy, that proves that preterism and covenant creation yields "rotten fruit".
It appears that you have an axe to grind against particular people and you are an angry person. I do hope you change your approach, because the only fruit I am receiving from you is indeed "rotten"
// You don't know what I understand and what I don't and don't have a right to declare that I "clearly" don't grasp what you consider to be clear. //
Wrong. I know exactly what you don’t understand because you put it in writing for everyone to see. What did I say? “You clearly do not understand what an ad hominem is.” That’s not me making up what’s in your head. That’s me reading your words and pointing out the obvious. And yes, based on what you wrote, you don’t. And for the record, it’s hominem, not hominin. If you can’t even spell the fallacy you’re throwing around, maybe slow down before trying to lecture anyone on logic.
// Again, just making an attack against the system without any more proof than your allegations. //
That’s laughable. I’ve spent years—literally years—engaging hyper-preterism. I was one for seven years. I have entire series of articles on this site dismantling its key claims. I have written extensive refutations of hyper-preterist readings of 1 Corinthians 15, and not one of your side has managed to answer them. Not one. So, for you to waltz in, glance at a single post, and then smugly claim I’ve offered “no proof” shows that you either haven’t done your homework or you’re deliberately lying. Which is it?
// Why should I accept YOUR interpretations (or rather, your insulting judgement calls) as true, versus what I and others HAVE studied? //
Because your claim to “study” is meaningless. Anyone can claim that. Atheists are studied. Muslims are studied. Wiccans are studied. Mormons are studied. And? It proves nothing. I studied hyper-preterism for seven years, and then I studied my way out of it. Does that mean you should automatically bow to my conclusion? No. And I don’t expect you to. But stop hiding behind the word “study” as though it’s some kind of badge of authority. It isn’t. All it proves is that you’ve read things. Big deal.
// You don't open any doors to acceptance of your own views (whatever they may be) by leading with insults. In fact, you come across as arrogant and as some kind of "authority" about what is right and what is good, without giving nothing more than a statement that because some others who may or may not have understood preterism are now atheists, and in your economy, that proves that preterism and covenant creation yields "rotten fruit". //
Let’s be clear: I’m not here to “open doors” for you. I’m here to tell the truth, and if that bruises your ego, too bad. I don’t need your approval or acceptance. My track record speaks for itself—I’ve helped lead people out of the lie of hyper-preterism, entire church staffs included. I’ve published years of material that your side has left untouched. And now you swoop in, take a cheap shot at one post, and pretend I’ve said nothing, all while proving you don’t even know what an ad hominem is. You’re not exposing me—you’re exposing yourself. The only person coming off as angry and desperate here is you.
I remember when this was happening. When I was a hyper-preterist, they sent me a copy of their book for free for me to review. I was shocked. My question back to them was, "Who made the trees?" They answered, "God, of course." I then asked, "How do you know? You have no Scripture for that?" Then the astronomer (author) guy jumped my case... but still no Scripture.
Truly sad. Thank you, Jesus, for dragging my sorry butt out of that mess! Praise Him!
I think it's really sad that the OP has descended to ad hominin attacks instead of discussing the merits of covenant creation. Simply CLAIMING that preterists say this or that, and then attacking those claims as false might appeal to weak minds, but it isn't truly a discussion - it is only an attack.
There ARE valid arguments for preterism and covenant creation, but instead of dealing with them, the old strategy of claiming the other side believes something false and then dismantling the falsehood is NOT discussion. Actually, it borders on the hateful, but disguising it as "love".
I hope that whoever read this OP checks out for themselves the claims of covenant creation. You might be surprised what it teaches isn't at all what is claimed here.
And, BTW, the claim that it leads to atheism is as true of mainstream Christian teachings as it might be of preterism. So if you want to use guilt by association, remember there are fingers pointing at you too!
You clearly do not understand what an ad hominem is. An ad hominem fallacy happens when someone attempts to address an argument by ignoring the argument and answering with insult. That is not what I did. My article was not meant to be a step-by-step refutation of Covenant Creationism. It was an exposure of the rotten trajectory of the system. Furthermore, I spent years "discussing the merits of covenant creation." I wrote a thorough critique of Tim and JL's chapter on the "Test of Truth." It's garbage. And it's been proven garbage over and over again since 2008/2009. I am not interested in “discussion.” These ideas do not deserve an endless back-and-forth. They are destructive lies that eat away at the very foundations of the faith. And my point with this post was not to dialogue with error but to warn against it.
Also, saying that hyper-preterism and Covenant Creationism lead to unbelief is not an attack on people, it is an indictment of the doctrine itself. When its most vocal advocates end up renouncing Christ, that is not “guilt by association,” it is the inevitable fruit of the tree. If you actually listen to Tami in that video, it's not hard to see how one leads to the other. I warned that this would happen to them, and it did.
"Clearly do not understand"?
That statement in itself is answering with an insult. You don't know what I understand and what I don't and don't have a right to declare that I "clearly" don't grasp what you consider to be clear.
Another statement of yours: "It's garbage"?
Again, just making an attack against the system without any more proof than your allegations.
Why should I accept YOUR interpretations (or rather, your insulting judgement calls) as true, versus what I and others HAVE studied?
You don't open any doors to acceptance of your own views (whatever they may be) by leading with insults. In fact, you come across as arrogant and as some kind of "authority" about what is right and what is good, without giving nothing more than a statement that because some others who may or may not have understood preterism are now atheists, and in your economy, that proves that preterism and covenant creation yields "rotten fruit".
It appears that you have an axe to grind against particular people and you are an angry person. I do hope you change your approach, because the only fruit I am receiving from you is indeed "rotten"
// You don't know what I understand and what I don't and don't have a right to declare that I "clearly" don't grasp what you consider to be clear. //
Wrong. I know exactly what you don’t understand because you put it in writing for everyone to see. What did I say? “You clearly do not understand what an ad hominem is.” That’s not me making up what’s in your head. That’s me reading your words and pointing out the obvious. And yes, based on what you wrote, you don’t. And for the record, it’s hominem, not hominin. If you can’t even spell the fallacy you’re throwing around, maybe slow down before trying to lecture anyone on logic.
// Again, just making an attack against the system without any more proof than your allegations. //
That’s laughable. I’ve spent years—literally years—engaging hyper-preterism. I was one for seven years. I have entire series of articles on this site dismantling its key claims. I have written extensive refutations of hyper-preterist readings of 1 Corinthians 15, and not one of your side has managed to answer them. Not one. So, for you to waltz in, glance at a single post, and then smugly claim I’ve offered “no proof” shows that you either haven’t done your homework or you’re deliberately lying. Which is it?
// Why should I accept YOUR interpretations (or rather, your insulting judgement calls) as true, versus what I and others HAVE studied? //
Because your claim to “study” is meaningless. Anyone can claim that. Atheists are studied. Muslims are studied. Wiccans are studied. Mormons are studied. And? It proves nothing. I studied hyper-preterism for seven years, and then I studied my way out of it. Does that mean you should automatically bow to my conclusion? No. And I don’t expect you to. But stop hiding behind the word “study” as though it’s some kind of badge of authority. It isn’t. All it proves is that you’ve read things. Big deal.
// You don't open any doors to acceptance of your own views (whatever they may be) by leading with insults. In fact, you come across as arrogant and as some kind of "authority" about what is right and what is good, without giving nothing more than a statement that because some others who may or may not have understood preterism are now atheists, and in your economy, that proves that preterism and covenant creation yields "rotten fruit". //
Let’s be clear: I’m not here to “open doors” for you. I’m here to tell the truth, and if that bruises your ego, too bad. I don’t need your approval or acceptance. My track record speaks for itself—I’ve helped lead people out of the lie of hyper-preterism, entire church staffs included. I’ve published years of material that your side has left untouched. And now you swoop in, take a cheap shot at one post, and pretend I’ve said nothing, all while proving you don’t even know what an ad hominem is. You’re not exposing me—you’re exposing yourself. The only person coming off as angry and desperate here is you.